Vedic vs sidereal. Vedic Astrology Free Online Calculator.
Sidereal (Vedic / East) vs Tropical (Western) Lunch with SonnyTarot Readings + Psychic Games + Astro Readings | Timestamps in description | Live Tarot Readin Jan 7, 2020 · (Since Vedic spirituality does not have anything to do with astrology, this is actually a misnomer, and I shall henceforward call it "Indian astrology" or "sidereal astrology". Online calculator of: Raman, Lahiri, KP - Krishnamurti Paddhati, Takra, Fagan-Bradley, Galactic Equator 5° Sag, De Luce and Larry Ely Ayanamsa. Vedic astrology, also known as Jyotish, relies on sidereal techniques to formulate accurate horoscopes. Vedic, or Hindu, astrology uses a form of it. Remember, the planets move. It's important to note that Vedic and Western astrology Mar 7, 2024 · March 7, 2024. There are many different house systems. Apr 12, 2024 · Vedic astrology is based on the sidereal zodiac and places a strong emphasis on the influence of the Moon and the lunar nodes, while Chinese astrology is based on the lunar calendar and uses a 12 Nov 8, 2022 · My Magazine Website https://astrologyinsightsmagazine. Here, I intend Aug 14, 2018 · Boggi574 said: Tropical looks more convincing on the surface but sidereal makes more sense when you look deeper into it. Vedic astrology charts are based on the sidereal zodiac system, which considers the exact position of the constellations in the sky. May 10, 2023 · Sharing is Caring. These dates are also different from Vedic and other common forms of sidereal astrology. There's a lot of myths and misinformation in circulation, and plenty of smart, knowledgeable astrologers remain confused as to what Sidereal actually is. Sidereal planets are not "more accurate", just different. D. Feb 23, 2024 · To interpret a Sidereal Vedic Astrology Chart, the astrologer analyzes the position of planets in each of the 12 houses concerning each other and the zodiac signs. Tropical vs Sidereal Vedic Jyotish Astrology Online Natal Chart Calculator, Free Astrology Software, Ayanamsa (Precession of the Equinoxes) Jul 19, 2023 · One of the key distinctions between Vedic astrology and Western astrology lies in their zodiac systems. The sidereal system is based on the current position of the constellations and the stars while the tropical astrology system is based on where the stars were around 0 AD. With its ties to ancient Vedic scriptures, it's believed that Vedic astrology is Compared to Vedic, however, we find Vedic astrology to be more accurate than tropical. “True sidereal is showing the fundamental self because it is the fundamental sky,” Chimenti explains. Jan 4, 2016 · Since, Nakshatra astrology became popular in last 80- 90 years, the sidereal calculation was also applied to zodiac. Ayana means “precession” and amsha means “part” or “portion. There is a sub for vedic at r/ vedicastrology. enters next Signs: Astro symbol meanings. The Sidereal Zodiac is the zodiac that ensures that what we see in the sky on any given day matches what we see in the calculated horoscope for that day. Predictions: Nadi Astrology is known for its specific predictions, including details like the number of siblings, profession, and potential health issues. As technology propels us forward, astrologers are embarking on an exciting journey to unravel the intricate tapestry woven by these lunar mansion Follow this link to get the sidereal Vedic astrology chart calculator. The Tropical Zodiac, the zodiac most Western astrologers use, is based on where the sun was stationed on each calendar day 2000+ years ago. Vedic astrology employs the sidereal zodiac, which takes into account the precession of the equinoxes, resulting in a slight difference in the position of the signs compared to the tropical zodiac used in Western astrology. Introduction to Jyotish. Because of the precession of the equinoxes, the vernal equinox moves through all Oct 31, 2023 · Zodiac System: Vedic Astrology uses the Sidereal Zodiac, which is based on the actual positions of the stars and constellations. was taken as Zero year by Sri Yukteshwar. gov. Though both Vedic and Western astrology systems have twelve zodiac signs, they differ in their understanding of the positions of constellations in the sky. In astrology, sidereal and tropical are terms that refer to two different systems of ecliptic coordinates used to divide the ecliptic into twelve "signs". Jul 19, 2021 · Vedic astrology uses the Sidereal zodiac, with Sidereal meaning “pertaining to the stars”. Sidereal Transit Chart. g. Neither uses the true constellations (contrary to what many will tell you). The astrologer also considers the individual’s Ascendant or rising sign as it determines the positioning of other planets in the chart. ago. You just have to let that idea go, hehe. Sidereal Chart vs Natal Tropical Chart, Astrology Zodiac Online Calculator, Which is Correct. Pis. Vedic Astrology~ Jyotisha. Learn how the sidereal zodiac, used in Vedic astrology, aligns with actual star constellations and shifts due to the Earth's precession, while the tropical zodiac, prevalent in Western astrology, remains fixed with the Earth’s seasons and the calendar. 29 ° 18’. This is for the Sidereal Zodiac with whole sign house system and using the Lahiri ayanamsha. Sidereal Vedic Ephemeris 2024, Free Astrology Planetary Online Ephemeris Tables 1800-2100, Astrology JPL NASA Astro. For Western May 24, 2022 · Vedic vs. What is the difference between tropical and sidereal? Tropical and sidereal are two different ways of determining your astrological signs. It is based on the idea that over time, due to the Earth’s precession, the alignment of the zodiac signs with the stars has shifted. In both systems this is divided into 12 equal parts, each of 30 degrees, just like the segments in an orange. Here, The Art of Vedic Astrology: Sidereal vs. This mathematical difference between the sidereal and the tropical zodiacs is called the “ayanamsha” in Sanskrit. E. First, placidus is a house system, while vedic/sidereal and western/tropical are the systems of zodiac and interpretation. I look at charts of celebrities and keep thinking sidereal makes more sense sometimes. Tropical Astrology. The chart of this day symbolizes the karmic trends for the year to come. It is not as common online or in the West. This article explores the main differences between the two traditions. Vimshottari Dasha Periods. The study of Nakshatras in Tropical versus Sidereal astrology systems delves into a fascinating realm within the vast cosmos of astrology. The Sidereal Zodiac is divided into 12 equal signs, with each sign May 11, 2021 · Zodiac System for Placement Calculations: Vedic astrology uses the sidereal zodiac, which is more astronomically precise than the tropical zodiac that Western Astrology uses—but that also means the placements in your birth chart can be almost a whole sign off from what you may be used to! Emphasis on different planets: Vedic astrologers most Planetary Positions. Between the 0 point and the equinox, the Earth tilts approximately 23. Apr 8, 2024 · The sidereal zodiac accounts for a phenomenon that is known as “the precession of the equinox”. Astrology is an incomparable asset to assess the potential possibilities of our lives. In sidereal astrology, the zodiac is divided The main difference that tropical has from the sidereal is a 24-degree discrepancy that affects the former’s calculation of the celestial bodies. Your ascendant or rising sign is usually shifted back one sign or approximately 24 degrees in Vedic Astrology. The sidereal zodiac is star-based, and measures the actual astronomical position of planets against the backdrop of the fixed-star constellations. However, their distinct perspectives make them use different approaches. [1] The terms sidereal and tropical may also refer to two different definitions of a year, applied in sidereal solar Jyotish uses the Fixed Sidereal Zodiac. The reason this is so is due to what’s called the Tropical Zodiac. The first dasha (period) is determined by the Nakshatra that the sidereal Moon is tenanting at the time of birth. nasa. Both tropical and sidereal take the 360-degree ecliptic and arbitrarily divide it up into 12 equally sized SIGNS of exactly 30 degrees each. Planets and other objects are in continuous motion. The aspects they create with the planets in our birth chart are called transits. I personally follow Vedic Astrology. Sidereal astrology is often associated with the Vedic tradition and is highly regarded in Eastern cultures. In fact all of the planets in the Tropical zodiac are actually found 23 degrees behind their actual Tropical placement when we convert the chart to a Fixed star or Sidereal Vedic chart. The actual constellations Oct 31, 2023 · Vedic Astrology employs the Sidereal Zodiac, based on the actual positions of stars and constellations, while Western Astrology uses the Tropical Zodiac, based on the position of the Sun at the vernal equinox. Sidereal Planetary positions are also known as Nirayana Planetary Positions. Like for example Bob Marley. • 4 yr. Yeah, I've been getting into vedic recently and I'm find that I'm starting to rely on it more than the western methods. Vedic astrology online calculator. in fact, the word sidereal comes from the word, ‘sider’ (which means ‘star’). Make sure you check out the Tropical zodiac, Vedic and True sidereal interpretation below the calculator. His music gives me a lot of Piscean vibes. “Some may call it the more Measured against the sidereal zodiac, this causes for the spring equinox to be 5 s early every year, a phenomenon called precession. Read here (Martin Gansten Traditional Astrologer: Tropical and sidereal) about the historical divergence of the two zodiacs in western astrology. Light, in this context, refers to the light radiation coming from stars and planets. That is, if all you know is western, you can't really compare your two sets of placements. He has an Aries Venus which probably means its Pisces venus in sidereal. Neither western (tropical) nor vedic use the actual constellations. Free Natal Chart Report – Sidereal Zodiac with Whole Sign Houses. This page lists Planetary Positions of Sun, Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Rahu, Ketu, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto on July 17, 2024 for Redmond, Washington, United States. In astrology, it is the longitudinal difference between the Tropical and Sidereal zodiacs. was taken as the year in which the compilation of Aryabhatiya was done and die birth year of Aryabhata is taken to be 499-23 = 476 A. Planets Western astrology connects more with the sun whereas Vedic astrology is considered to be closer to the moon. This chart calculator uses Tropical Rasis with Sidereal Nakshatras as per the research of Ernst Wilhelm. And thus, we come to the origin of the name tropical: the tropics. As McDonough explains, Western astrology bases charts on the “tropical calendar” (which most of the world uses) and the four seasons, while Vedic astrology charts are calculated using something called the sidereal system, which looks at the changing, observable constellations. Transit planets in natal houses. 2. Many articles detail the technical variations between the tropical zodiac and the sidereal zodiacs, as well as why astrologers would use one or the other. 6 years, the tropical and the sidereal zodiacs Sep 14, 2022 · Either way, sidereal is often known for being a more spiritual form of astrology that focuses more on the soul’s journey. This page lists sidereal and tropical Planetary Positions for all nine planets used in Vedic astrology. This determines your bodygraph (which reveals your type, strategy, authority, etc. The two systems vary in where a planet appears in a chart because we each choose a different starting point for 0 degrees Aries. Aug 8, 2023 · System of Calculation: Vedic Astrology: Vedic astrologers often use the Sidereal Zodiac, which is based on the fixed positions of the stars. The term refers to the number degrees difference between the Spring Equinox and the 1st degree of Aries. ”. In essence, the dates of the sidereal zodiac or astrology The sidereal zodiac is commonly used in Vedic astrology, which originated in ancient India. Vedic astrology is based on the sidereal zodiac, a system in which the positions of planets are calculated based on where they are “actually observed in the sky in respect of Chart Creator. Now, in the human design community, there is a LOT of discussion around using a different combination of sidereal astrology features. Jyotish literally translates from Sanskrit as “the science of light. Both systems are true in their own potential and power; Sidereal measurement being astronomically accurate while Tropical stays fixed to the 4 seasons of Earth’s cycle. Vedic astrology uses a different calendar. Apr 17, 2023 · The Vedic calendar (calculated with the panchānga), which is Lunisolar, honors the astronomical new year with the new moon (sun and moon) in Pisces or new moon closest to the vernal equinox. Sidereal vs western pt2. so in vedic Feb 23, 2024 · Sidereal Vedic Astrology Chart Explained Sidereal Vedic Astrology Chart Explained Among the many forms of astrology, Vedic Astrology has been a prominent one, and the sidereal vedic astrology chart is an integral part of it. that means the fixed star constellations. Feb 24, 2024 · Sidereal astrology, on the other hand, takes into account the actual physical positions of the stars and constellations. western astrology, sidereal vs tropical, tropical Article on Vedic Astrology from Wikipedia. PDF. Unlike tropical astrology, which is commonly practiced in Western cultures, sidereal astrology takes into account the actual current positions of the stars and constellations in the sky. The Vedic system is a more accurate astronomical representation of the Sun’s position in relation to the skies. Aspects to natal planets. Jun 26, 2020 · The Tropical Zodiac Explained. Many astrologers in India use the word Vedic astrology only to play the emotional game with other Indians. I used the “Lahiri ICRC” setting in Genetic Matrix . Apr 29, 2024 · Unlocking the Mysteries of Nakshatras: A Celestial Journey. In this system, the zodiac is aligned with the fixed stars and follows their movements. Are the sidereal astrology and vedic astrology basically the same thing? Probably 99% of Vedic astrologers use the sidereal zodiac, but it's technically not the same thing since a very tiny minority use the tropical zodiac. This sub focuses on western, yes. Tropical, you can find an easy explanation on the technical differences between the two zodiacs. Calculating the Positions of the Planets and Stars The Sidereal Method Although Western astrology traces its roots […] Aug 9, 2021 · Jyotish Shastra (Vedic astrology) is an ancient Indian philosophical tradition that studies the movement of stars and their influence on human life. The starting point in sidereal astrology is known as the fiducial point, the fixed star Spica. In both tropical and sidereal systems, the . You may have only recently heard about it. When we look at Tropical measurement, the signs begin on the StellaGraphia. Scrubbing away all silly exaggerations since Linda Goodman's time and returning to astrology's roots helps in that department. ) Since the vernal point makes a slow motion relative to the fixed stars, namely the so-called precession of 1° in 71. Tropical is great for psychology and understanding self in relation to others. Feb 28, 2024 · A Closer Look: Sidereal vs. However, it uses the nakshatra and pada system, which breaks down the One of the key differences between Vedic and Western astrology lies in the zodiac system they use. However, to further complicate matters there are Sidereal feels more accurate, especially when it comes to predictive astrology. Maha Dasha is called after the Great period in a person's life. Ernst Wilhelm studied contradictory statements in old Sanskrit texts that revealed that the Ancient Vedic Astrologers between 0-600 AD had lost the knowledge of precession and as a result introduced errors into their astronomical calculations. for each of the segments. " This is a Free generator that gives you the report based on the details you give it. Here is the first class of my 102 course on the 12 signs of the zodiac, where the zodiac itself is clearly explained, and the topic of sidereal and tropical is addressed. While both Western & Vedic astrology May 18, 2021 · Vedic astrology instead uses the sidereal zodiac, which corresponds to what is observable and measurable in the sky (“sidereal” etymologically is based on the root sider-, or “star”). Vedic astrology follows the sidereal zodiac, which is based on the actual positions of the constellations in the sky. Nov 10, 2023 · Sidereal astrology is a branch of astrology that focuses on the actual positions of stars and constellations at a specific point in time. One important factor to consider when using the sidereal zodiac is the ayanamsa. Sharing is Caring. jpl. Astrologers use two primary zodiac systems to divine meaning from the cosmos; sidereal and tropical. The following free birth chart tool lists planet signs, house positions, and aspects. This results in a slight difference in the placement of planetary signs in birth charts. If you open an astronomy app, and point it towards Saturn, it will say it’s in Aquarius (which is the current correct location of Saturn and the current sidereal location) not Pisces (where western astrology considers Saturn right now). You also have people using the sidereal zodiac with Western astrology but they are a very, very tiny minority. “Some may call it the more Jan 18, 2017 · That is not the purpose of this essay. 5 degrees relative to the Equator, causing a shift of about 1 degree every 72 Ayanamsa is the Sanskrit term for the amount of precession. Key Concepts in Jyotish. Western astrology uses the tropical zodiac system, which is based on the orientation between the Earth and the Sun as calculated in 200 C. Dec 15, 2023 · whilst vedic astrology uses the ‘observable & measurable’ elements in the sky. The sidereal zodiac is "based on the fixed positions of stars rather than the tropical zodiac used in Western astrology. Each sign is divided into 30 degrees, making a total of 360 degrees. Vedic Astrology Free Online Calculator. Tropical vs. Jun 25, 2022 · In Vedic astrology, the calendar uses the sidereal system which pays attention to planetary position based on constellations rather than the fixed method that applies to the western version. Two additional planets Neptune and Uranus are also added to the list of nine planets. The Vedic had good knowledge of the precession and took it into Jun 25, 2020 · The Sidereal Zodiac is growing in popularity in the West, but it's still not a subject much taught in astrology classes. The zodiac signs in the Sidereal Zodiac are associated with specific nakshatras, which further define an individual’s Yes, Vedic astrology uses the sidereal zodiac rather than the tropical zodiac. It is based on the fixed stars and is believed to reflect the physical and material aspects of an individual’s life. Both systems are legit. Regarding Sidereal vs Tropical debate, I am still confused and is still open to Sidereal astrology is the most popular in the East, particularly in India. This reminds me in some ways of the debate in music over fixed do and movable do. For example, if we see Jupiter shining brightly in Libra in the sky Jul 15, 2022 · Sidereal Astrology vs. Dec 11, 2023 · by Lucas Vanderlinden Share on: In the practice of astrology, there are two main types: Western, also known as tropical astrology, and Vedic, also known as sidereal astrology. The cyclic wobbling in the orientation of Earth’s axis of rotation (precession) has a period of 25,772 years. While both Western & Vedic astrology sidereal, tropical, zodiac, ayanamsa, sayana, nairayana, system, western astrology, difference, vedic astrology vs. Both zodiacs use the same sign names e. On the other hand, Western astrology follows the tropical zodiac, which is based on the Earth’s relationship with the Sun. vedic astrology concerns itself with where the sun actually is in the sky against the backdrop of the constellations. Therefore the 499 A. Sep 12, 2019 · One common perception of tropical vs sidereal is that tropical changes, because it shifts relative to the stars, while sidereal is a fixed frame of reference because it’s based on the fixed stars. By aligning with the constellations, Vedic astrology offers profound insights into an individual’s karma, destiny, and spiritual journey. The reason is purely monetary. sidereal . Start by entering your birthdate into the appropriate fields on the 13 Sign Astrology Chart Calculator, taking care to include the month, day, and year. The Sidereal Zodiac considers Earth's axial precession and uses the actual positions of the planets and constellations, which shift slightly over time in terms of relative position to Earth. Vedic uses the sidereal zodiac which uses the correct location of the stars in the sky. Sidereal planet positions. While the dates of the Sidereal Zodiac change over time, the Tropical Zodiac does not. But there is more to an astrology system than simply the zodiac choice - Vedic astrology also uses whole sign houses normally, not variable houses like Placidus; it uses a somewhat different set of aspects, and has different ways of laying out the chart. . This is because Tropical systems fix the Vernal Equinox at 0 Oct 16, 2023 · Sidereal astrology is specific on a whole different level. But I think you are asking about the actual zodiac systems, how we determine what sign the planets are in, that is sidereal vs tropical. Sight-singing with a movable do allows you to sing in different Dec 1, 2023 · Human Design is a mechanical system dependent on the movement of neutrino streams through the planets. Jan 26, 2024 · Nadi Astrology relies on ancient palm leaves and thumbprints, while Vedic Astrology employs birth charts calculated from the time, date, and place of birth. Sidereal The primary difference between Sidereal and Tropical astrology systems is where those signs are placed in the sky. This was when astrology moved from India into the “West” via moving through Zoroastrian Persia. This system is not for everyone so that if you are uncertain, you might instead go back to the May 15, 2024 · "This is because Vedic astrology uses the sidereal zodiac," says Won. My sentiments exactly. Mar 4, 2023 · "Which one is better - Vedic (sidereal) or Western (tropical) astrology?" These questions are common for practitioners, and the answer is neither. Vedic astrology uses a form of sidereal. Both are different primarily due to the Tropical vs Sidereal system being used. Additionally, i t bases on how we see the stars from here on earth, rather than on their fixed positions in the heavens. In traditional astrology, the birth chart is an essential tool to understand an individual’s positioning in the universe. However, the constellations are not actually spaced in 30 degree segments, so Sidereal astrology can’t claim to be a more accurate or natural system than Tropical astrology. This video covers the difference between the Vedic, Western, and 13 Sign sidereal astrology systems. Both systems use signs. com Online Ephemerides Calendar, Free Planetary Ephemeris Calculator 1800-2100, Ephemeris Online Download . The calculations involve the use of ayanamsa (the Mar 10, 2023 · The answer is both. This system is based on the connection the planets have with the constellation of zodiac signs. They ar Apr 18, 2017 · 499 A. Chinese Astrology Lunar calendar vs solar calendar A crucial difference between Vedic Astrology and Western Astrology is that Vedic Astrology uses the Sidereal Zodiac. Clues: it's not Vedic, it doesn't use thirteen signs, and it's not even an attitude struck by modern astrologers in Here is Part 1 of a live video presentation on the topic of Sidereal and Tropical Zodiacs in Vedic Astrology: Here is Part 2 – which includes some very helpful animations. Aries, Taurus, etc. Tropical Astrology: The Basics. A particular stretch of time in an individual's lifespan is ruled by a particular planet. Neither uses the actual constellations. Being largely predictive, Vedic astrology, also known as Jyotish, uses a sidereal zodiac, unlike the solar-based zodiac used in Tropical ADMIN. Discover the fascinating distinctions between the sidereal and tropical zodiacs on our detailed astrology page. However, the constellations are not actually spaced in 30 degree segments, so Sidereal astrology can't claim to be a more accurate or natural system than Tropical astrology. Vedic astrology places great importance on the precise positions of the planets and the constellations at the time of an individual’s birth. Optional: Various Ayanamsas. ). Transits can help us to understand the Dec 21, 2021 · The sidereal astrology I used to calculate my second HD chart is vedic. It lists current position of all planets according to Vedic Astrology which uses sidereal zodiac. Common sidereal systems use an even thirty degrees for each of the signs, while true sidereal uses the true size of the constellations. Articles covering the Sidereal Zodiac, Planetary Forces, Forecasting Analogies and ‘Planetary Antidotes’. It can be confused with Aquarian vibes but the Pisces is definitely present too. I'm starting to think the tropical chart describes more of a surface egoic structure whereas the sidereal chart describes more of what's actually going on under the surface. Unfortunately, it does not use the true size of the constellations and it also uses an even thirty degrees for each of the signs, like tropical. when the system was first created. Sidereal astrology is an ancient astrological system that focuses on the position of the stars and constellations. Translate: Hindustan Astrology Jun 6, 2024 · Vedic vs. It is stated by the commentator of Aryabhatiya that the Precession of the Equinoxes was Zero in 499 A. A range of articles for people entirely new to Vedic Astrology. We divide up the ecliptic into 12 equally sized signs of 30 degrees each. Including: Introduction, FAQs, Origins and Karmic Implications. Tropical, you can read a simple explanation on the technical differences between the two zodiacs. Feb 26, 2024 · The Sidereal Zodiac is used in Vedic astrology, which is practiced in India and other parts of the world. More ephemerides are available at: ssd. When Sidereal charts are calculated, it’s based on the idea that neutrino streams are moving through 12 fixed stars, then Aug 9, 2021 · Jyotish Shastra (Vedic astrology) is an ancient Indian philosophical tradition that studies the movement of stars and their influence on human life. This means that some or all of the planets in a Tropical chart will move backwards from one sign/house to another, if we want to convert the Tropical placement While Tropical works with signs, Sidereal works with the observable planetary transits amongst the constellations. Oct 16, 2023 · Sidereal astrology is specific on a whole different level. com/Want to learn Vedic Astrology from Joni? Join my online University of Vedic Astrology to become a Jan 8, 2020 · Sidereal charts are primarily used by Vedic astrologers (Hindu, Jyotish). That is not the goal of this article. Oct 16, 2023 · Vedic Astrology and Sidereal Techniques How Vedic Astrology Utilizes the Sidereal Zodiac. Vedic or Sidereal astrology is presented from the earth’s perspective as the planets move through the constellations overhead. Vedic astrology is a highly sophisticated and complex discipline that originated from the Vedas, the Hindu holy books, specifically the Reg Veda, the oldest of the sacred texts of Hinduism. Find below some info regarding the differences from the indastro website which of course could be pro-vedic. Sep 11, 2023 · Sidereal astrology includes Vedic astrology, which is more commonly used in India. This is obviously because sidereal actually follows the physical location of the planets while tropical is 23 degrees behind. Did you learn vedic astrology in order to assess your sidereal placements? Because, you can't apply western tropical meanings to just a sidereal chart. For example, Leo and Cancer are the same size in most sidereal systems. EN. Calculate when planet. The zodiacs used in both Jyotish and Western Astrology are based on an imaginary sphere in the heavens. The sidereal zodiac is used for the evolution of humanity over thousands of years (what we call “ages”, “eras”, or “epochs” in astrology, such as the age of Aquarius that is already upon us). Both Vedic and Tropical astrology are based on the language of planets, signs, and houses. Western astrology Tropical vs. We would like to show you a description here but the site won’t allow us. df ys qo lj ev cl wk nu vw am
